[MUSIC]
Rick Yaeger: WANT TO KNOW HOW TO TAME YOUR MAC MAIL? [Pop captions up]
Rick Yaeger: I'M RICK YAEGER FROM MACMERC.COM AND TODAY I'LL SHOW YOU HOW IN "THE LAB". [Pop captions down] [MUSIC] [Beeping] [MUSIC]
Leo: IS IT THAT TIME? [Pop captions up]
Leo: IT'S THAT TIME. I LOVE THIS TIME OF THE DAY. IT'S TIME FOR "THE LAB WITH LEO". I AM LEO LAPORTE. AND THIS IS THE SHOW WHERE WE KIND OF EXPLAIN HOW TECHNOLOGY WORKS. WE HELP YOU UNDERSTAND IT SO YOU CAN USE IT IN YOUR DAILY LIFE. [Pop captions down]
Leo: THAT'S MY GOAL HERE. I MEAN TO ME THIS IS REALLY ABOUT COMMUNICATING WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS KIND OF REVOLUTION WE'RE GOING THROUGH AND WHAT IT MEANS TO YOU. HOW YOU CAN USE IT. IT'S NOT AIRY-FAIRY KIND OF OH SOME DAY WE'RE ALL GONNA HAVE FLYING CARS. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT. THIS IS STUFF WE CAN USE TODAY. ALTHOUGH SOME DAY WE WILL HAVE FLYING CARS. KATE ABRAHAM LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. [Laughs] [Pop captions up]
Kate: HOW ARE YOU?
Leo: LOVELY IN YELLOW. A VERY SUNNY COLOUR, I LOVE THAT. AND TODAY IS EPISODE 49.
Kate: 49. [Pop captions down]
Leo: ACCORDING TO THE MR. CLIPBOARD. OH STEVE GIBSON IS --
Kate: YEP.
Leo: I LOVE STEVE GIBSON, RICK YAEGER, AH THEN MR. MACMERC, HE'S GONNA HELP YOU TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR EMAIL. KRIS KRUG IS GONNA TALK ABOUT BRIGHT WHICH IS A WONDERFUL COMMUNITY SITE.
Kate: MMM-HMM.
Leo: SO WE'VE GOT A GREAT SHOW PLANNED FOR YOU.
Kate: IT'S GONNA BE FANTASTIC.
Leo: BUT THE KEY IS THE CALLERS, WHICH THIS IS WHAT KATE DOES SO WELL.
Kate: I DO I'M ACTUALLY I'M FEELING QUITE EVIL RIGHT NOW CAUSE WE HAVE MIKE FROM MELBOURNE IN VICTORIA VIA SKYPE.
Leo: AND IT'S WHAT TWO IN THE MORNING?
Kate: IT'S ABOUT TWO-THIRTY IN THE MORNING FOR HIM. SO I'M JUST LIKE SORRY TO KEEP YOU UP.
Leo: OH MIKE I REALLY APPRECIATE IT. KATE BUT SEE WHEN KATE CALLS YOU KNOW IT'S LIKE OF COURSE, WHATEVER YOU ASK. I'LL DO WHATEVER YOU ASK. HELLO MIKE. HOW ARE THINGS IN MELBOURNE?
Mike: GOOD DAY LEO. YEAH PRETTY GOOD, VERY DARK OUTSIDE. [Leo laughing]
Leo: WELL THAT'S GOOD CAUSE IF IT WEREN'T DARK I'D BE WORRIED. [Mike laughs]
Leo: IT'S SO NICE TO TALK TO YOU. THANK YOU FOR STAYING UP LATE. I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT.
Mike: NOT A PROB.
Leo: WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU TODAY? [Pop captions up]
Mike: UM I'VE GOT A PROBLEM BASICALLY WITH A LOT OF INTERNET PROVIDERS IN AUSTRALIA CHARGE BANDWIDTH AT TWO DIFFERENT RATES. WE HAVE AN ON PEAK AND AN OFF PEAK RATE. AH BANDWIDTHS IN AUSTRALIA IS EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. IT NORMALLY COSTS SOMEWHERE AROUND OOH 70, $80 --
Leo: HOLY -- [Pop captions down]
Mike: FOR ABOUT 60 GIG A MONTH USAGE.
Leo: HO! [Both talking at once]
Leo: I THOUGHT IT WAS BAD IN NORTH AMERICA. THAT'S AWFUL.
Mike: YEAH, YEAH IT'S EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. SO WHAT I WANTED TO DO THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD VIDEO PODCASTS THAT I SUBSCRIBE TO SUCH AS GEEK BRIEF, MELON SHOW, ALL OF THOSE. BUT WHAT I'M FINDING IS THEY'RE USING UP ALL MY PEAK BANDWIDTH --
Leo: RIGHT.
Mike: BECAUSE THEY JUST SEEM TO RANDOMLY FIRE UP WHENEVER THEY WANT.
Leo: YES.
Mike: AND I'M WANTING TO FIND SOME WAY TO SCHEDULE THE ACTUAL DOWNLOADS OF THOSE. [Pop captions up]
Leo: THE PROBLEM IS THAT ITUNES ITSELF AH JUST THERE'S NO WAY TO TELL ITUNES DON'T DOWNLOAD UNTIL A CERTAIN TIME.
Mike: OKAY.
Leo: IT'S JUST THE MINUTE YOU LAUNCH IT, IT CHECKS AND IT STARTS DOWNLOADING. AND AS FAR AS I CAN TELL UNTIL THEY START BUILDING THIS IN ITUNES THERE'S NO WAY TO DO THIS. NOW WHAT YOU COULD DO IS YOU COULD HAVE ITUNES RUN AT A PARTICULAR TIME. [Pop captions down]
Leo: OFF PEAK HOURS AND MAKE SURE IT'S RUNNING THEN AND THEN CHANCES ARE IT'LL GET ALL THAT STUFF. AND THEN YOU KNOW YOU THEN WHEN YOU'RE RUNNING IT IN THE DAY IT'S NOT GONNA BE DOWNLOADING QUITE AS MUCH. IN OTHER WORDS ENCOURAGE IT TO DOWNLOAD AT NIGHT. YOU CAN'T FORCE IT TO DOWNLOAD AT, AT NIGHT. BUT BY RUNNING IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT YOU CAN ENCOURAGE IT TO DO SO. WOULD THAT HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEM?
Mike: IT WOULD. I, I HAD TO PLAY WITH LAUNCHING IT OVERNIGHT. I JUST COULDN'T FIND A WAY TO ACTUALLY CLOSE IT AGAIN TO STOP IT JUST FROM GOING ON.
Leo: ON INTERESTING. ARE YOU ON A MAC OR WINDOWS?
Mike: I'M ON A MAC.
Leo: OKAY. HEY YOU KNOW ITS FUNNY BECAUSE WINDOWS HAS UM A NUMBER OF SCHEDULING PROGRAMS AND THE MAC DOES TOO. BUT IT'S NOT OBVIOUS WHERE IT IS. IT'S THE, IT'S ICAL BELIEVE IT OR NOT.
Mike: RIGHT.
Leo: APPLE HAS DECIDED TO, TO PUT IT INTO ICAL. YOU CAN'T SEE THIS HUH? LET ME SEE WHAT OH YOU CAN'T SEE MY SCREEN, OKAY. WELL THERE THIS IS, THIS IS I'LL SHOW YOU HOW TO DO THIS IN ICAL REAL QUICKLY. YOU HAVE, YOU RAISE AN INTERESTING QUESTION. HOW DO WE STOP IT? UM LET ME, LET ME SEE IF I CAN ADDRESS THAT NEXT. SO HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO. WE'RE GONNA CREATE A NEW EVENT AND IT SAYS RUN ITUNES AND WE'RE GONNA MAKE WE CAN, WE CAN MAKE IT A HIDDEN EVENT. WE CAN YOU KNOW PUT IT IN A CALENDAR THAT DOESN'T SHOW UP. YOU CAN AND THEN THE ALARM IS THE WAY THAT YOU WOULD TRIGGER IT. YOU WOULD HAVE IT UNDER ALARM. YOU SELECT OPEN FILE AND THE FILE THAT YOU OPEN IS ACTUALLY ITUNES. AND SO IT'LL AUTOMATICALLY RUN ITUNES. SO THAT'S GONNA RUN IT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. I THINK YOU MIGHT WANT TO LEAVE IT RUNNING FRANKLY BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IT'S GONNA TAKE TO DOWNLOAD ALL THE STUFF. AND THE, THE POINT IS TO GET IT DO, YOU KNOW YOU MIGHT SET THAT TIME TO BE RIGHT WHEN THE OFF PEAK HOUR BEGINS. AND THEN UM JUST LET IT RUN SO CAUSE WHO KNOWS HOW LONG IT'S GONNA TAKE? BUT ANYWAY THIS IS THAT'S HOW YOU WOULD LAUNCH IT. YOU WOULD LAUNCH IT IN THE CALENDAR AND I'M JUST GONNA SAY REPEAT THIS AND YOU COULD SAY EVERY DAY. SO EVERY DAY AND LET'S MAKE IT AT THREE A.M. EVERY DAY AT THREE A.M. I WANT YOU TO RUN ITUNES. SO THAT'S WHAT'S, WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN HERE. NOW WILL ITUNES CLOSE? THERE'S THE, THERE'S THE SCHEDULE RIGHT THERE. NO IT WILL NOT CLOSE. UM YOU COULD HAVE YOUR MACHINE SHUTDOWN ON SCHEDULE, WHICH WOULD CLOSE ITUNES. SO THAT WOULD BE ONE THING TO DO. AND YOU KNOW HOW TO DO THAT PROBABLY. THAT'S IN ASSISTANCE PREFERENCE PANE. YOU CAN JUST TELL THE MACHINE - -
Mike: YEAH.
Leo: SHUT DOWN AT A PARTICULAR TIME. AH BUT I DON'T KNOW OF ANY WAY TO WELL ACTUALLY I DO. I TAKE IT BACK. YOU COULD CREATE AN AUTOMATOR SCRIPT THAT CLOSES OR AN APPLE SCRIPT THAT CLOSES ITUNES AND, AND USE ICAL TO RUN THAT SCRIPT AT ANOTHER TIME. SO --
Mike: RIGHT.
Leo: SO THAT, THAT WOULD DO IT AND IT'S PRETTY EASY. I MEAN IT YOU JUST IT'S THE APPLE SCRIPT WOULD TELL ITUNES CLOSE AND TELL AND THAT'S IT. [Laughs]
Leo: SO THAT WOULD BE A VERY SIMPLE WAY TO DO IT. [Pop captions up]
Leo: IT, IT THIS FEELS VERY CLUGY THOUGH. IT DOESN'T FEEL LIKE A REALLY SLICK WAY TO DO THIS. WHAT WOULD REALLY BE NICE IS FOR ITUNES TO HAVE A BUILTIN SCHEDULER. AND I THINK WE SHOULD LOBBY APPLE TO DO THAT CAUSE FRANKLY I THINK THAT THAT'S A REALLY BIG ISSUE. EVEN IF, EVEN IF YOU WERE PAYING A FLAT FEE FOR A DATA YOU KNOW THERE'S, IF, IF YOU'RE, YOU'RE ON A SKYPE CALL LIKE WE ARE NOW YOU DON'T WANT ALL OF A SUDDEN ITUNES TO KICK IN AND START DOWNLOADING BIG FILES. [Pop captions down]
Mike: YEAH EXACTLY. [Pop captions up]
Leo: YOU'D LIKE IT TO DO IT AN OFFBEAT TIME AND I DON'T KNOW OF ANY WAY UNFORTUNATELY TO DO THAT. I'LL HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY, AH RICK DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING LIKE THAT? [Pop captions down]
Leo: CAN YOU THINK OFF THE TOP OF YOUR -- [Rick Yaeger talking background]
Leo: I THINK THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT. HE'S PRETTY MUCH YOU'RE STUCK, STUCK WITH, STUCK TO DOING IT VIA ICAL. I CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER, OF ANY OTHER GOOD WAY TO DO THAT. YOU KNOW IT REALLY IRKS ME BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON THAT YOU SHOULD BE PAYING THAT MUCH EXCEPT THAT EVERYBODY DOES IT. YOU KNOW IN SWEDEN --
Mike: YEAH.
Leo: FOR INSTANCE THEY GET 100 MEGABITS UP AND DOWN FOR THE EQUIVALENT OF ABOUT 20 OR 30 BUCKS. THAT'S TRUE IN MUCH OF THE COUNTRY. IN JAPAN IT'S ABOUT TEN BUCKS A MONTH. UM FOR SOME REASON IN THE U.S., CANADA AND AUSTRALIA THEY JUST CHARGE YOU AND YOU, YOU HAVE IT WORSE. I MEAN 80 THAT'S OUTRAGEOUS. SO I DON'T, YOU KNOW THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY CAN FRANKLY. I DON'T THINK BANDWIDTH IS REALLY THAT EXPENSIVE OR SHOULD BE THAT EXPENSIVE. I KNOW FOR INSTANCE IN NORTH AMERICA WE'VE GOT TONS OF DARK FIBER UNUSED BANDWIDTH UNDER THE GROUND SITTING THERE. THEY'RE CREATING A, ESSENTIALLY CREATING A FALSE SCARCITY.
Mike: OH.
Leo: SO THAT THEY CAN KEEP THE PRICES HIGH. BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT WE'RE SEEING PRICES START TO TUMBLE. ARE THEY GOING DOWN A LITTLE BIT IN AUSTRALIA NOW?
Mike: UM WELL JUST AS THEY WERE STARTING TO DROP EVERYTHING IS NOW MOVING TO 80 OR CELL TOO.
Leo: RIGHT.
Mike: SO NOW PRICES ARE ON THEIR WAY BACK UP.
Leo: THAT GIVES THEM THE EXCUSE TO CHARGE MORE. [Laughs]
Leo: RIGHT?
Mike: THAT'S IT.
Leo: WHAT YOU REALLY NEED IS COMPETITION. YOU NEED AND, AND THAT'S REALLY THE PROBLEM IS IT'S A PROBLEM IN NORTH AMERICA TOO. IS THERE, THERE, THERE IS ONE, USUALLY THERE'S ONE PHONE COMPANY AND ONE CABLE COMPANY AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT. AND YOU KNOW THEY CAN COLLUDE AND MAKE SURE PRICES STAY HIGH. WHAT YOU NEED IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT PROVIDERS AND THEN THE PRICES OF COURSE TUMBLE. AND I BET YOU ANYTHING THAT'S THE CASE IN, IN COUNTRIES WHERE THE, WHERE THE BAND, BANDWIDTH IS CHEAP IS THAT THEY HAVE A LOT OF COMPETITION. ANYWAY THAT'S MY BEST ANSWER TO YOU. I WISH THERE WERE ANOTHER WAY. IN WINDOWS YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING USING THE SCHEDULER THAT'S BUILT INTO WINDOWS. JUST RUN ITUNES AND SAY GO AHEAD DOWNLOAD ALL YOU WANT. NOW IS THE TIME. GET IT WHILE YOU CAN. OKAY?
Mike: SOUNDS GREAT TO ME.
Leo: HEY THANK --
Mike: CAN I ASK ONE VERY SMALL FAVOUR?
Leo: OH ANYTHING. YOU STAYED UP TILL TWO IN THE MORNING FOR US. LET ME DO SOMETHING FOR YOU.
Mike: CAN YOU, CAN YOU JUST SAY HI TO MY MOM? HER NAME IS KATH AND SHE LOVES TO WATCH YOUR SHOW.
Leo: SHE DOES?
Mike: SHE'S ALWAYS GOING ON ABOUT LARRY. FOR SOME REASON SHE CALLS LARRY LAPORTE.
Leo: HER NAME IS KAT?
Mike: KATH, K-A-T-H.
Leo: KATH, KATH, DEAR THIS IS LARRY. I JUST WANT TO SAY HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING AND WE'LL SEE YOU ON "THE LAB" OKAY? THERE HOW ABOUT THAT?
Mike: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Leo: AND LOOK AT YOUR SON, WHAT A NICE BOY. HE'S A NICE BOY. I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYBODY SAYS. THANKS, THANKS A LOT MIKE. TAKE CARE.
Mike: THANKS LEO.
Leo: THANKS FOR STAYING UP WITH US.
Mike: ALL RIGHT.
Leo: BYE-BYE. COMING UP STEVE GIBSON IS GONNA TALK ABOUT SECURITY. HE'S OUR SECURITY EXPERT. [Pop captions up]
Leo: YOU KNOW THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT WAYS YOU CAN PROVE THAT YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE. HE'LL TALK ABOUT THEM AND WHY IT'S BETTER TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE WHEN "THE LAB" CONTINUES. STAY RIGHT HERE. [Pop captions down] [MUSIC] [Commercial break] [MUSIC]
Leo: WELCOME BACK TO "THE LAB". LEO LAPORTE HERE. STEVE GIBSON IS ALSO HERE. THE MAN WITH THE MOUSTACHE, MR. QUINTY, MINTY LATTE. THAT'S WHAT WE CALL HIM CAUSE HE LOOKS LIKE FIVE YES COUNT EM FIVE SHOTS IN HIS LATTE.
Steve Gibson: WHAT'S THE POINT OTHERWISE? [Leo laughing]
Leo: THAT'S WHAT KEEPS HIM SO PEPPY AND FULL OF VIM AND THAT'S WHY HE HAS SO MUCH ENERGY TO WRITE ALL THESE GREAT FREE SECURITY PROGRAMS.
Steve Gibson: VIM?
Leo: VIM.
Steve Gibson: VIM AND VIGOR.
Leo: VIM AND VIGOR.
Steve Gibson: OH YEAH I'M NOT SURE WHAT VIM IS. [Both talking at once]
Leo: \M SEE MY DOGGIE RIVO \M \M IT KEEPS HIM SO ALIVO \M AND, AND BOY THAT'S A REALLY OLD, OLD AD.
Steve Gibson: YEAH OLD SCHOOL.
Leo: SO PRETEND I DIDN'T SING THAT. UH AT GRC.COM HE'S WRITTEN SHIELDS UP, 51,000,000 USERS, AH DECOMBOBULATOR, UNPLUG AND PRAY, SHOOT THE MESSENGER, THE CLICK OF DEATH, I MEAN THERE, I CAN GO ON AND ON AND ON. LOTS OF FREE PROGRAMS FOR YOU TO USE. THE LEAK TEST, WHICH IS HIS MOST POPULAR PROGRAM.
Steve Gibson: 6,000,000, 6,000,600,000 COPIES OF THAT.
Leo: SO YOU SHOULD HAVE CHARGED FOR THAT ONE --
Steve Gibson: RIGHT.
Leo: INSTEAD OF GIVING THAT AWAY.
Steve Gibson: YEAH.
Leo: HE DOES CHARGE FOR SPINRITE AND IT'S WORTH IT. IT IS THE WORLD'S BEST HARD DRIVE MAINTENANCE UTILITY, AN ABSOLUTE MUST. NOW STEVE AND I DO A PODCAST CALLED SECURITY NOW EVERY WEEK ON OUR TWIT NETWORK. AND WE TALK ABOUT SECURITY YOU KNOW FOR LIKE FOR AN HOUR AT A TIME. WE REALLY GO INTO DETAIL AND RECENTLY WE DID ONE ON AUTHENTICATION. WELL PASSWORDS BASICALLY IS ONE FORM OF AUTHENTICATION. A WAY OF PROVING YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE. [Pop captions up]
Steve Gibson: WHAT'S, WHAT'S HAPPENING IS AS EVERYONE KNOWS CERTAINLY EVERYONE LISTENING TO THIS SHOW, THAT THE INTERNET IS BECOMING MORE PERVASIVE, MORE AND MORE SERVICES ARE GOING ONLINE. BANKS ARE NOW DISCOURAGING YOU FROM SHOWING UP AT THEIR TELLER WINDOW.
Leo: OH YEAH THEY DON'T WANT TO PAY ANY PEOPLE. [Pop captions down]
Steve Gibson: THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU.
Leo: YEAH.
Steve Gibson: OR WORRY ABOUT AIRCONDITIONING.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: THEY'D JUST RATHER YOU STAYED HOME AND, AND DID THIS STUFF ONLINE.
Leo: WELL AND SO WOULD WE IF WE COULD DO IT SECURELY AND EASILY.
Steve Gibson: WELL AND YOU KNOW SITTING HERE ACROSS FROM YOU I KNOW YOU'RE LEO.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: THERE'S NO DOUBT. I'VE SEEN YOU BEFORE.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: WE'VE TALKED A FEW TIMES. YOU KNOW I MEAN THERE IS NO DOUBT. AND I REMEMBER YOU KNOW THE OLD "ANDY OF MAYBERRY" SHOW WHERE OPIE WOULD GO INTO THE DRUGSTORE AND PICK UP AUNT BEA'S MEDICATION AND THERE THE DRUGGIST KNEW OPIE.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: I MEAN THERE WAS FACE TO FACE AUTHENTICATION OF WHO HE WAS. SO HE WOULD TRUST HIM OR EN, ENTRUST HIM TO, TO TAKE THE STUFF BACK TO AUNT BEA. NOW THE PROBLEM IS ON THE INTERNET WE'RE CONNECTED ELECTRONICALLY. WE NO LONGER HAVE FACE TO FACE. AND SO, SO THE QUESTION HOW DO YOU PROVE, HOW DO YOU AUTHENTICATE YOUR IDENTITY TO SOME REMOTE THIRD PARTY? AND HOW DO THEY KNOW WITH WHAT LEVEL OF, OF ASSUREDNESS DO THEY HAVE THAT YOU ARE WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE? WELL THE, THE, THE APPROACH THAT MOST PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH, THE SO-CALLED SINGLE FACTOR AUTHENTICATION IS A USER NAME AND PASSWORD. [Pop captions up]
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: THAT IS TO SAY IT IS SOMETHING YOU KNOW. SO SOMETHING YOU KNOW IS BEING USED TO PROVE YOUR IDENTITY TO SOME OTHER PARTY WITH WHOM YOU HAVE SHARED THAT KNOWLEDGE -- [Pop captions down]
Leo: ONLY THE TWO OF US KNOW THAT.
Steve Gibson: BEFOREHAND.
Leo: PRESUMABLY.
Steve Gibson: THE PROBLEM IS YOU COULD FIRST OF ALL IT THAT, THAT KNOWLEDGE CAN ESCAPE. IT'S POSSIBLE. YOU KNOW KNOWLEDGE IS EPHEMERAL. YOU COULD, YOU COULD WRITE IT DOWN ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR KEYBOARD. SOMEONE FLIPS YOUR KEYBOARD OVER NOW THEY KNOW IT TOO.
Leo: PRETTY COMMON.
Steve Gibson: SO YES AND SO THAT'S A PROBLEM WITH PASSWORDS. WELL IN ORDER TO INCREASE THE LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE MULTI- FACTOR AUTHENTICATION HAS COME INTO PLAY.
Leo: SO DON'T JUST STOP WITH THE LOGIN AND PASSWORD HAVE ANOTHER FACTOR.
Steve Gibson: NOT JUST SOMETHING YOU KNOW --
Leo: OKAY.
Steve Gibson: BUT THE SECOND FACTOR IS SOMETHING YOU HAVE. AND THE THIRD ONE IS SOMETHING YOU ARE.
Leo: HMM.
Steve Gibson: THAT IS LIKE A FINGERPRINT.
Leo: OH OKAY.
Steve Gibson: OR AN IRIS SCAN, OR SOMETHING PHYSICAL --
Leo: SOMETHING I HAVE MIGHT BE MY BANKCARD.
Steve Gibson: WELL THAT'S NOW THAT'S A PERFECT EXAMPLE. FOR EXAMPLE PEOPLE ARE USED TO USING AN ATM MACHINE WHERE THEY USE A, A THEY USE THEIR ATM CARD.
Leo: SOMETHING THEY HAVE.
Steve Gibson: SOMETHING THEY HAVE.
Leo: YEAH.
Steve Gibson: AND A PIN SOMETHING THEY KNOW.
Leo: THAT'S TWO FACTORS.
Steve Gibson: THAT'S DUAL FACTORS --
Leo: OKAY.
Steve Gibson: OR TWO FACTOR AUTHENTICATION.
Leo: OKAY.
Steve Gibson: SO --
Leo: NOW PRESUMABLY THE MORE FACTORS IS BETTER.
Steve Gibson: THE MORE FACTORS YOU CAN HAVE THE BETTER.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: BECAUSE THERE'S, THERE'S LESS CHANCE THAT, THAT SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PULL ALL THAT TOGETHER.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: NOW FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU, IF YOU, IF MOM AND DAD WANTED THEIR DAUGHTER TO GO GET 20 BUCKS OUT OF THE ATM YOU KNOW MOM WOULD GIVE HER DAUGHTER THE CARD AND THE PIN. SO AGAIN IT'S STILL NOT FOOLPROOF.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: BUT IT, IT MEANS THAT BUT IT'S NOT YOU KNOW DAUGHTER CAN'T SNEAK THE CARD OUT OF MOM'S PURSE AND GET THE MONEY.
Leo: RIGHT MOM HAS TO COOPERATE.
Steve Gibson: CAUSE MOM KNOWS ONLY MOM KNOWS THE PIN.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: AND SO AND NOR WOULD KNOWING THE PIN ALONE ENABLE THE TRANSACTION BECAUSE WITHOUT PHYSICAL POSSESSION OF THE CARD AT THE MACHINE IT'S STILL A NO GO.
Leo: AND OF COURSE BANKS MAKE IT REALLY HARD TO CHANGE THE PIN. SO THE, THE LONGER YOU USE ANY FORM OF AUTHENTICATION THE LESS OR --
Steve Gibson: THE WEAKER IT BECOMES.
Leo: THE WEAKER IT IS, YES.
Steve Gibson: YES INHERENTLY. NOW BRINGING IN THE THIRD FACTOR THOUGH WHICH IS TYPICALLY BIOMETRICS, SOMETHING YOU ARE.
Leo: AH.
Steve Gibson: FOR EXAMPLE SWIPING YOUR FINGER ON A, ON A FINGERPRINT SCANNER. OR, OR HAVING YOUR IRIS SCANNED --
Leo: HMM.
Steve Gibson: IS, IS ALSO A VERY STRONG AUTHENTICATION BECAUSE HOPEFULLY YOU KNOW NO ONE'S GONNA STEAL YOUR FINGERS. ALTHOUGH OF COURSE IN SPY MOVIES AND THOSE THINGS --
Leo: YEAH.
Steve Gibson: YOU DO GET YOUR YOU KNOW YOUR HAND CHOPPED OFF.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: AND THEY, AND THEY HOLD IT UP AGAINST THE SCANNER. SO THAT --
Leo: AND IT MAY OR MAY NOT WORK DEPENDING ON THE SOPHISTICATION OF THE SCANNER.
Steve Gibson: WHEN FOR ME, FOR ME TO GET ACCESS TO MY SERVERS THAT ARE A THIRD PARTY FACILITY --
Leo: MMM-HMM.
Steve Gibson: LEVEL 3 I HAVE A, A BADGE.
Leo: MMM-HMM.
Steve Gibson: AND THE, THE PHYSICAL DIMENSION OF MY HAND IS, IS MEASURED. NOW WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS THAT FOR EXAMPLE THAT MY HAND BY ITSELF IS NOT UNIQUE ENOUGH TO IDENTIFY ME. THAT IS I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF, IF HERE SOMEWHERE OF, OF ALL THE STAFF IN THE STUDIO SOMEBODY'S GOT A HAND SIZE THAT IT IS, IT IS --
Leo: CLOSE ENOUGH.
Steve Gibson: CLOSE ENOUGH THAT IF THEY WERE CLOSER THAN THAT MY OWN HAND MIGHT GET REJECTED.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: BECAUSE THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING TOLERANCE, I MEAN YOU KNOW -- [Both talking at once]
Leo: -- SOME CHANGES.
Steve Gibson: OH I HAD A, I HAD A BIG MEAL.
Leo: YEAH.
Steve Gibson: OR I DRANK A LOT OF WATER, IT'S GONNA --
Leo: YEAH RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: IT'S GONNA YOU KNOW IT'S GONNA CHANGE A LITTLE BIT.
Leo: RIGHT, RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: BUT THE IDEA IS THAT MY CARD IS UNIQUE. SO I PRESENT THEM WITH THE CARD AND NOW THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT TRYING TO RECOGNIZE MY HAND FROM THEIR ENTIRE DATABASE OF HANDS. THEY'RE SAYING DO WE BELIEVE, YOU KNOW WE, WE THINK THIS IS STEVE BASED ON THE CARD. DO WE BELIEVE IT'S HIM BASED ON HIS HAND? IS, IS IT CLOSE ENOUGH?
Leo: SO SHOULD WE ALWAYS BE USING MULTI-FACTOR AUTHENTICATION? IS THAT WHERE THINGS ARE HEADED?
Steve Gibson: I THINK THAT IS. WITHOUT QUESTION IT'S THE FUTURE. THERE ARE, THERE ARE, THERE'S A COOL TECHNOLOGY THAT RSA LABS CREATED CALLED SECURID. IT'S A LITTLE TOKEN WITH A SIX DIGIT LCD DISPLAY.
Leo: THERE IT IS RIGHT THERE.
Steve Gibson: EVERY MINUTE IT CHANGES AND THE IDEA IS THAT THAT'S THE WAY OF PROVING SOMETHING YOU HAVE. THIS IS ON YOUR KEYRING AND SO WHEN YOU WANT TO AUTHENTICATE YOURSELF YOU, YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE YOUR PASSWORD OR PIN AND THE CURRENT NUMBER ON THAT DISPLAY.
Leo: HMM.
Steve Gibson: WHICH IS, WHICH CHANGES EVERY MINUTE.
Leo: OH SO THAT SOLVES THE PROBLEM BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY A, A, A BANKCARD ISN'T GONNA WORK ON A WEBSITE BUT THAT WOULD.
Steve Gibson: EXACTLY.
Leo: THEY, THEY HAVE PRESUMABLY THE SAME TOKEN BACK AT THE WEBSITE SO THEY'RE MATCHED UP RIGHT?
Steve Gibson: EXACTLY. [Pop captions up]
Steve Gibson: AND THEY AND RSA HAS MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF, OF SECURID CARDS. THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE THEIR CREDIT, CREDIT CARDS LIKE THAT ONE. THEY EVEN HAVE ONE WHERE IT'S GOT A LITTLE TEN KEYPAD BUILT INTO THE CREDIT CARD AND YOU HAVE TO ENTER IT IN EXACTLY LIKE THAT.
Leo: OH LOOK AT THIS. DOES THAT COMMUNICATE BACK WITH RSA VIA RADIO? IS THAT IT?
Steve Gibson: NO. THE IDEA, THE IDEA IS, IS THAT, THAT MIXES WITH THE CRYPTO IN THE CARD TO FORM A DISPLAY SO THAT THEN -- [Pop captions down]
Leo: AH AND THEN YOU ENTER THAT IN.
Steve Gibson: AND THEN YOU ENTER THAT IN.
Leo: OH VERY INTERESTING.
Steve Gibson: AND ONLY IF YOU ENTERED THE RIGHT CODE IN AND HAD THE CARD --
Leo: HOW DO THEY KNOW WHAT THE KEY IS THOUGH? IS IT, ARE THEY SYNCHRONIZED SOMEWHERE?
Steve Gibson: YES IT'S VERY COOL. THE, THE IDEA IS THAT IT'S ALL BASED ON CRYPTO SO THEY KNOW LIKE LAST MINUTE'S CODE, THIS MINUTE'S CODE AND NEXT MINUTE'S CODE AND EVERY TIME YOU GIVE IT, IT, IT UPDATES ITS CLOCK --
Leo: SO THEY HAVE A DATABASE --
Steve Gibson: SO THEY SYNCHRONIZE WITH YOU.
Leo: THEY HAVE A DATABASE SOMEWHERE.
Steve Gibson: YES ON THE BACK OF THE CARD IS A BIZILLION CHARACTER SERIAL NUMBER. YOU, YOU GIVE THEM THAT WHEN, WHEN YOU SET UP THIS CARD.
Leo: AH.
Steve Gibson: AND THAT CONTAINS THE CRYPTO IN THE CARD.
Leo: GOT IT.
Steve Gibson: SO NO, NO TWO PEOPLE'S CARDS GO THROUGH THE SAME SEQUENCE OF NUMBERS.
Leo: RIGHT, WOW.
Steve Gibson: SO THEY'RE ALL UNIQUE. IT'S VERY NEAT. BUT YES I THINK IN THE, IN THE FUTURE RIGHT NOW WE'RE STILL SEEING SINGLE-FACTOR AUTHENTICATIONS SOMETHING YOU KNOW, WHICH AS WE INCREASE THE VALUE OF OUR ONLINE IDENTITIES AND THAT'S CERTAINLY HAPPENING YOU DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE TO PRETEND TO BE YOU.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: AND YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO PROVE YOU ARE TO SOME HIGH VALUE SITE WHERE YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO SAY YES YOU'RE LEO.
Leo: RIGHT.
Steve Gibson: I'M STEVE.
Leo: REALLY INTERESTED TO SEE WHAT THE BIG BRAINS COME UP WITH TO SOLVE THESE VARIOUS PROBLEMS THAT WE COME UP AGAINST AS THE INTERNET BECOMES BIGGER AND MORE USEFUL AND WE DO MORE THINGS ON IT.
Steve Gibson: RIGHT.
Leo: IT'S FASCINATING I THINK. YOU CAN FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THIS AT STEVE'S SITE -- [Pop captions up] [Blank for boards]
Leo: IN FACT WE HAVE A WHOLE PODCAST ON THIS SUBJECT AND A FOURTH -- [Both talking at once]
Steve Gibson: AND I --
Leo: A FOURTH FACTOR OF AUTHENTICATION.
Steve Gibson: WELL WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT THAT SOON.
Leo: THAT'S FOR THE ADVANCED CLASS. THAT'S AUTHENTICATION 102. ANYWAY --
Steve Gibson: THE FOURTH FACTOR.
Leo: THE FOURTH FACTOR. YOU'LL FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THAT AT GRC.COM. THAT'S WHERE YOU'LL ALSO FIND STEVE'S GREAT SPINRITE PROGRAM. THE ULTIMATE HARD DRIVE RECOVERY MAINTENANCE UTILITY. AND ALL THE LINKS ARE ON LABWITHLEO.COM. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK IN JUST A SECOND BUT BEFORE WE GO LET'S DO A LITTLE, LET'S A LITTLE TEST OF YOUR VISUAL ACUITY. THIS IS A CLOSEUP OF SOMETHING YOU'LL FIND COMMONLY AROUND THE LAB. WHAT IS IT? HMM THINK ABOUT IT. WE'LL ZOOM OUT AND FIND OUT WHEN "THE LAB" CONTINUES RIGHT AFTER THIS. [MUSIC] [Pop captions down] [Commercial break] [MUSIC] [Pop captions up]
Leo: WHAT THE TECH IS THAT? IT'S A CLOSEUP OF, YOU SEE THERE'S A CORD COMING OUT THE SIDE AND IT'S A PHONE THING OR SOMETHING. I DON'T KNOW. LET'S ZOOM OUT. LET'S FIND OUT. OH ETYMOTICS HEADPHONES. I NEVER WOULD HAVE GUESSED. VERY GOOD. I LIKE THOSE HEADPHONES. THEY'RE GOOD HEADPHONES. [Pop captions down]
Leo: THANK YOU SEAN CARRUTHERS FOR YOUR CLOSEUP PHOTOS. THAT'S A FUN SEGMENT. NOW LET'S GET TO OUR NEXT CALLER AND I KNOW WE HAVE ONE BECAUSE KATE'S BEEN WORKING HARD OVER THERE.
Kate: CRACKING THE WHIP.
Leo: CRACKING THE WHIP.
Kate: I HAVE WILMA AND THE PLACE IS POINTE-AU-BARIL IN ONTARIO AND APPARENTLY IT'S HOW YOU PRONOUNCE IT.
Leo: POINTE-AU-BARIL?
Kate: POINTE, POINTE-AU- BARIL.
Leo: POINTE-AU-BARIL. WHAT'S HER NAME?
Kate: WILMA.
Leo: HI WILMA.
Wilma: HI.
Leo: HOW ARE THINGS IN POINTE-AU-BARIL? [Pop captions up]
Wilma: OH QUIET, QUIET. LOTS OF POLLEN IN THE AIR. CHOKING WHEN YOU STEP OUTSIDE.
Leo: OH DEAR I HOPE YOU DON'T HAVE ALLERGIES.
Wilma: YES I DO.
Leo: OH.
Wilma: YEAH SO IT DOESN'T HELP THERE.
Leo: IT'S SAD BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALLERGIES YOU KNOW STILL WANT TO LIVE IN THESE GREAT PLACES LIKE POINTE-AU- BARIL.
Wilma: THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S RIGHT. BUT THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT GET IN YOUR WAY. BUT AS LONG AS YOU KEEP THE WINDOWS CLOSED AND STAY IN AND THE FANS RUNNING YOU'RE OKAY. [Pop captions down]
Leo: THAT KIND OF TAKES SOME OF THE FUN OUT OF IT BUT OKAY.
Wilma: FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
Leo: ARE THERE LOTS OF GRASSES IN YOUR AREA? IS THAT WHAT IT IS?
Wilma: NO TREES.
Leo: TREES.
Wilma: WE'RE IN THE NORTHERN PART OF ONTARIO.
Leo: I SEE, TREE POLLEN.
Wilma: YEAH WE'RE ABOUT 50 KILOMETRES NORTH OF PARRY SOUND.
Leo: OKAY.
Wilma: YEAH.
Leo: SOUNDS BEAUTIFUL.
Wilma: YEAH.
Leo: SO WHAT CAN I, WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU?
Wilma: WHAT I'M HAVING PROBLEMS WITH AND WOULD LIKE TO, TO KNOW IF YOU CAN GIVE ME AN IDEA OF WHAT SPEED WHAT IS AN AVERAGE SPEED THAT SOMEONE WOULD HAVE ON A DIAL-UP CONNECTION?
Leo: YEAH AND BECAUSE YOU'RE IN A RURAL AREA YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MANY CHOICES DO YOU?
Wilma: WELL WE JUST HAD MAN LINE PHONES PUT IN, IN SEPTEMBER OF 2005.
Leo: HOLY COW.
Wilma: AND WE'RE SEVEN KILOMETRES BY WATER SO OUR LINES ARE IN THE WATER.
Leo: OKAY.
Wilma: THEY'RE UNDER WATER.
Leo: OKAY.
Wilma: AND EVERYTHING WAS GOING FINE UP UNTIL MARCH OF THIS YEAR AND MY SPEED WAS 21.6, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS OKAY BECAUSE THAT'S ALL I ACCUSTOMED TO.
Leo: RIGHT.
Wilma: AND NOW IT'S DOWN TO 14.0.
Leo: WOW.
Wilma: GIGABYTES AND YOU CAN'T GO NOWHERE WITH IT.
Leo: NO THAT'S REALLY, REALLY SLOW.
Wilma: YOU CAN'T DOWNLOAD. YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING.
Leo: THERE'S A, A SERVICE I USE TO TEST YOUR SPEED THAT I JUST LOVE. IT'S CALLED SPEEDTEST.NET. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN IT.
Wilma: SPEEDTEST.NET NO.
Leo: BUT WHAT'S, WHAT'S NICE ABOUT THIS IS YOU CAN COMPARE YOUR RESULTS WITH OTHER PEOPLE IN THE AREA AND GET AN IDEA OF WHAT'S TYPICAL. WE'RE THESE ARE THE VARIOUS SERVERS. NOW THE CLOSEST ONE TO YOU WELL I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WHOLE LOT. THERE'S ONE IN TORONTO. THAT'S PROBABLY THE CLOSEST ONE TO YOU. [Pop captions up]
Wilma: AH THE, THE SERVICE, LIKE MY --
Leo: NO, NO I'M JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR SPEED TESTER.
Wilma: OH OKAY.
Leo: SO I'M GONNA USE VANCOUVER'S. AND WHAT IT DOES AN UPLOAD AND IT DOES A DOWNLOAD AND IT GIVES YOU A REALLY GOOD IDEA BUT THEN YOU CAN COMPARE YOUR NUMBERS WITH OTHER PEOPLE. NOW LET ME TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON FOR YOU. YOU'RE USING PROBABLY A 56K MODEM. I MEAN IT IS NOMINALLY CAPABLE OF 56,000 BITS PER SECOND. [Pop captions down]
Wilma: THAT'S RIGHT.
Leo: YOU'RE ONLY GETTING A QUARTER OF THAT. YOU'RE GETTING 14,000 BITS PER SECOND.
Wilma: MMM-HMM.
Leo: YOU WEREN'T EVEN GETTING HALF THAT BEFORE. YOU WERE, YOU WERE ONLY GETTING 20,000 BITS PER SECOND. NOW IT'S NOT IT'S POSSIBLE THAT IT'S THE MODEM OR YOUR COMPUTER. BUT IT'S MUCH MORE LIKELY YOU TOLD ME SOMETHING VERY TELLING. YOU TOLD ME YOU JUST GOT LANDLINES A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. IT'S MUCH MORE LIKELY THAT WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THAT THE PHONE COMPANY HAS PUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THOSE FEW LINES. IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE FOR THEM TO RUN LINES AFTER YOU GUYS. AND SO AS A RESULT WHAT THEY DO IS THEY MULTIPLEX. THEY PUT MANY LINES PEOPLE ON ONE LINE AND OFTEN THAT WILL REDUCE THE BANDWIDTH CARRYING CAPACITY OF THE LINE. WHAT YOU SHOULD ASK THE PHONE COMPANY IS DID YOU RECENTLY MAKE SOME CHANGES? CAUSE THEY MAY HAVE DONE PUT EVEN MORE PEOPLE ON THERE.
Wilma: MMM-HMM.
Leo: AND REDUCED YOUR CARRYING CAPACITY EVEN MORE.
Wilma: OH.
Leo: SO 50, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT A 56K BIT MODEM THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NOMINALLY THE BEST THEORETICAL POSSIBILITY. IT NEVER RUNS THAT FAST. BUT YOU SHOULD BE GETTING 40 TO 44,000 WITH CLEAN LINES WITH NO NOISE. HOW DOES THE LINE SOUND? IT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME HERE. DO YOU GET A LOT OF LINE NOISE OR CRACKLE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT?
Wilma: NO I GET NOTHING LIKE THAT. NO NOTHING LIKE THAT THROUGH MY LINE.
Leo: OKAY. SO THAT'S SOMETIMES A SIGN THAT YOU KNOW AND, AND THAT'S WHY THIS STUFF IS HARD TO TRACK DOWN. IT COULD BE THE LINES IN YOUR HOUSE IF THEY'VE BEEN HEAVILY SPLICED. YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF EXTENSIONS. IT COULD BE YOU KNOW RAIN SOMETIMES CAUSES THESE THINGS. BUT, BUT GIVEN THAT YOU THESE ARE RECENTLY LAYED LINES YOU'RE IN A RURAL, A VERY RURAL AREA WHERE IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE FOR THE PHONE COMPANY TO PROVIDE YOU WITH SERVICE. I'M WILLING TO BET THAT YOU'RE GETTING THE BEST YOU CAN BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE PHONE COMPANY HAS CONFIGURED THE LINES. YOU COULD TRY TO TRACK IT DOWN BY CALLING YOUR INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER OR YOUR PHONE COMPANY AND SEE IF THEY CAN GIVE YOU SOME INSIGHT. SOMETIMES IF YOU GET SOMEBODY WHO'S NICE AND FRIENDLY --
Wilma: YEAH WELL THEY PASS THE -- [Both talking at once]
Leo: THEY'LL TELL YOU THIS. I'M SORRY SAY AGAIN.
Wilma: THEY JUST PASS THE BUCK.
Leo: THEY PASS THE BUCK.
Wilma: LIKE I CALL THE PHONE COMPANY AND THEY SAY IT'S MY SUBSCRIBER.
Leo: YEAH.
Wilma: I CALL THE SUBSCRIBER AND THEY'VE DONE TWO OR THREE THINGS TO, TO MAKE THINGS DIFFERENT. A DIFFERENT NUMBER TO DIAL INTO. AH THEY, THEY LOWERED THE NUMBER ON MY MODEM FOR ME.
Leo: THAT'S GOOD. I MEAN IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOUR INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER IS DOING EVERYTHING IT CAN.
Wilma: YEAH.
Leo: I, I CAN'T SAY FOR SURE THAT IT'S NOT SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER OR THE LINES IN YOUR HOUSE.
Wilma: MMM-HMM.
Leo: BUT I CAN TELL YOU BECAUSE OF WHERE YOU LIVE ITS VERY LIKELY THE PHONE COMPANY.
Wilma: OH OKAY.
Leo: AND THAT JUST MAYBE THE BEST THAT YOU CAN GET. I'M SORRY TO SAY, THIS IS --
Wilma: THAT -- [Laughs]
Leo: IT'S A NATIONAL CRIME I THINK.
Wilma: WELL IT, WELL IT IS. I MEAN PEOPLE THAT COME UP TO VISIT SAY IT'S A NATIONAL CRIME THAT WE'RE GETTING 21 WHICH I THINK IS GREAT. BUT WHEN I SEE 14 WELL THEN I - -
Leo: 14 IS THAT TAKES US BACK TO 1989.
Wilma: YEAH.
Leo: UM AND --
Wilma: BUT WOULD THAT HAVE AN EFFECT ON, ON, ON WHAT I HAVE TO SAY IS WHEN I GO TO PICK UP ON MY STORE TO GET MY EMAIL AND I'M AT 14 IT SAYS IT'S CONNECTING BUT IT NEVER CONNECTS. IT JUST SITS THERE AND SAYS CONNECTING.
Leo: YEAH THAT COULD BE AH - -
Wilma: AND THEN IT COMES UP WITH AN ERROR AND I CAN'T GO ANYWHERE. [Leo sighs]
Leo: YOU KNOW THIS IS SUCH A HARD THING TO TRACK DOWN. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR INTERNET SERVICE PROVIDER IS WORKING WITH YOU. I DON'T THINK IT'S THEM. I THINK IT'S THE PHONE COMPANY AND I THINK YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP TRYING THE PHONE COMPANY TO GET SOME SATISFACTION. AND YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT ALTERNATE WAYS LIKE SATELLITE. SEE IF YOU CAN GET BETTER CONNECTIONS. FRANKLY THE REASON I SAY THIS IS A NATIONAL CRIME IS INTERNET ACCESS IS SO BECOMING MORE AND MORE IMPORTANT SO FUNDAMENTAL TO BE, TO BEING A PART OF SOCIETY NOW THAT WE REALLY NEED TO WORK ON WAYS TO MAKE THIS SPEED UP. THERE WILL BE WAYS. THERE ARE THINGS WIMAX AND, AND OTHER HIGH SPEED WAYS TO, TO GET BETTER PERFORMANCE AND I HOPE SOME DAY YOU WILL GET THAT. COMING UP IN JUST A LITTLE BIT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT COMMUNITY WEBSITES. [Pop captions up]
Leo: KRIS KRUG WILL BE HERE. MORE OF YOUR CALLS TOO. I JUST FEEL FOR IRMA CAUSE I, WILMA CAUSE I KNOW HOW THAT IS. BUT I THINK THERE'S NOT MUCH YOU CAN DO. KRIS KRUG COMING UP ON OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITIES. DON'T GO AWAY. "THE LAB" CONTINUES IN JUST A BIT BUT RIGHT NOW OUR QUICK QUIZ QUESTION OF THE DAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 802.11. THAT'S A WI-FI NETWORKING TECHNOLOGY. WHAT BAND DOES IT USE? [Blank for boards]
Leo: GO TO THE WEBSITE. GIVE US A GUESS. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT. IT MAY NOT BE WHAT YOU THINK IT IS WHEN "THE LAB" CONTINUES. STAY RIGHT HERE. [MUSIC] [Pop captions down] [Commercial break] [MUSIC]
Leo: WELCOME BACK TO "THE LAB". KRIS KRUG IS WITH US. HE'S A VANCOUVER FASHION AND EDITORIAL PHOTOGRAPHER AND A FOUNDER OF THE PHOTOGRAPHY STUDIO STATIC PHOTOGRAPHY. IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK KRIS. HE ALSO IS PRESIDENT OF A COMPANY CALLED BRYGHT, B-R-Y-G- H-T. NOW ARE YOU A WEB DESIGNER AS WELL? IS THAT HOW YOU GOT INTO THIS?
Kris Krug: THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH WAY BACK I WAS IN WEB DEVELOPMENT AND WEB DESIGN.
Leo: YEAH.
Kris Krug: YEAH.
Leo: YEAH. I GUESS IT MAKES SENSE IF YOU'RE A PHOTOGRAPHER THAT YOU COULD KIND OF GET INTO GRAPHIC ARTS AND WEB DESIGN AS WELL.
Kris Krug: YEAH I WENT THE OTHER WAY. I WAS IN DESIGN AND I'D BE USING OTHER PEOPLE'S PHOTOS AND STARTED SHOOTING MY OWN, YEAH. [Pop captions up]
Leo: OH INTERESTING. OH THAT MAKES SENSE.
Kris Krug: YEAH.
Leo: YEAH. SO TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT BRYGHT. [Pop captions down]
Leo: WHY DID YOU START BRYGHT?
Kris Krug: AH BRYGHT WAS FOUNDED IN 2004 AS DRUPAL THIS OPEN SOURCE CONTENT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM REALLY STARTED TO TAKE OFF. SO A LOT OF THE, OF THE CORE MEMBERS OF THE DRUPAL COMMUNITY FOUND CAME TOGETHER AND FORMED BRYGHT SO.
Leo: OH THAT'S NEAT. WE, WE TALK A LOT ABOUT DRUPAL ON THIS SHOW. IN FACT I, I THINK WE TALK MORE ABOUT DRUPAL THEN ANY OTHER, THEN ANY OTHER TELEVISION SHOW EVER DOES. MAYBE WE SHOULD EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT, WHAT DRUPAL IS. IT'S AN, IT'S AN ENGINE THAT CAN RUN A WEBSITE BASICALLY.
Kris Krug: PRETTY MUCH. SO YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE WORDPRESS WHICH POWERS BLOGS.
Leo: MMM-HMM.
Kris Krug: THIS DRUPAL POWERS COMMUNITIES.
Leo: OKAY.
Kris Krug: SO IT ALLOWS PEOPLE IT'S THE BITS AND PIECES, THE COMPONENTS THAT MAKE A COMMUNITY WEBSITE. [Pop captions up]
Kris Krug: SO SOMEONE CAN CREATE A USER ACCOUNT AND A PROFILE, ADD PHOTOS AND IMAGES TO THEIR ACCOUNT. SHARE THOSE CONNECT WITH FRIENDS INSIDE OF A COMMUNITY. DO THINGS LIKE THAT SO IT'S --
Leo: PEOPLE NO LONGER JUST CODE THEIR WEBSITES IN HTML. [Pop captions down]
Kris Krug: OH NO. YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO KEEP UP. YOU WOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO KEEP UP.
Leo: AND YEAH ESPECIALLY IF IT'S A COMMUNITY WHERE YOUR READERS ARE CONTRIBUTING CONTENT.
Kris Krug: THAT'S RIGHT.
Leo: HOW WHAT ARE YOU GONNA MAKE THEM DO THEIR HTML?
Kris Krug: NO THAT'S RIGHT.
Leo: NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT.
Kris Krug: A LOT OF OUR CUSTOMERS ARE FOLKS WHO WANT TO TAKE THE FEATURES OF THINGS LIKE MYSPACE OR THE FEATURES OF FACEBOOK --
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: AND BRING THAT BACK ONTO THEIR OWN DOMAIN.
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: SO WE DO WORK WITH BANDS AND RECORD LABELS WHO --
Leo: OH THAT'S NEAT.
Kris Krug: THEY WANT EACH ONE OF THEIR BAND SITES TO HAVE FANS WHO COME AND CREATE PROFILES THERE. UPLOAD CAMERA PHONE PHOTOS FROM SHOWS THE NIGHT BEFORE.
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
Leo: WE USE DRUPAL FOR "THE LAB'S" SITE. [Pop captions up]
Leo: SO YOU CAN SEE AN EXAMPLE IF YOU GO TO THE LABWITHLEO.COM. I USE IT FOR MY TWIT SITE, TWIT.TV. IT'S A VERY POWERFUL, GREAT ENGINE. TELL ME SOME OF THE COMMUNITY FEATURES THAT DRUPAL ALLOWS YOU.
Kris Krug: OH GOSH --
Leo: YOU CAN DO A BLOG WITH IT. [Pop captions down]
Kris Krug: OH GOSH ALL THE WEB 2.0 STUFF THAT YOU HEAR ABOUT ALL THE TIME YOU CAN DO IN DRUPAL.
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: SO IT SUPPORTS PODCASTING, VIDEO BLOGGING. IT HAS INTEGRATION. RIGHT NOW THEY'RE WORKING ON A FACEBOOK APPLICATION SO YOU CAN SUCK DATA OUT OF YOUR DRUPAL COMMUNITY SITE AND STICK IT UP ON YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT. UM FORUMS, ALL SORTS OF --
Leo: WHY WOULD SOMEBODY USE OR CREATE, I MEAN LIKE WHY NOT USE FACEBOOK? IF YOU'RE A BAND WHY NOT USE SOMETHING LIKE MYSPACE OR?
Kris Krug: WELL YOU DEFINITELY SHOULD USE FACEBOOK. THERE'S ALREADY A COMMUNITY THERE HAPPENING.
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: BUT IF YOU WANT TO BRING THAT TRAFFIC BACK ONTO YOUR OWN SITE TOO.
Leo: HAVE YOUR OWN SITE.
Kris Krug: YOU WANT TO HAVE A PLACE THAT WHERE YOU CAN HAVE A STORE AND WHERE YOU KNOW THESE BIG RECORD LABELS WHO WE'RE WORKING WITH LIKE WARNER BROTHER RECORDS --
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: AND RHINO RECORDS THEY WANT TO HAVE STRONG BRAND PRESENCE AND SO YOU SEE HERE.
Leo: THAT MAKES SENSE. SO SHOW US, SHOW US SOME SITES THAT YOU'VE DONE.
Kris Krug: WELL I HAVE UP HERE ON THE SITE AND WE LAUNCHED THIS LAST WEEK. THIS IS DEAD.NET SO UM --
Leo: FOR THE GRATEFUL DEAD?
Kris Krug: FOR RHINO RECORDS AND THE GRATEFUL DEAD.
Leo: WOW, WOW. THAT'S NEAT. [Pop captions up]
Kris Krug: YOU KNOW THIS HUGE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY INTERESTED IN THEIR MUSIC.
Leo: OH ISN'T THAT BEAUTIFUL? LOOK AT THAT.
Kris Krug: AND THEY CAN GO HERE. IT'S GOT REALLY NEAT FEATURES. THEIR SHOWS ARE A TYPE OF CONTENT WITHIN THE SYSTEM. SO A USER CAN GO TO A SHOW AND INDICATE THAT HE WAS AT IT. OTHER USERS CAN GO TO A SHOW AND SAY WHAT OTHER MEMBERS OF THE ONLINE COMMUNITY THAT WE'RE A PART OF WERE ALSO AT THIS SHOW?
Leo: SO YOU CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION AROUND AN EVENT.
Kris Krug: OH YEAH.
Leo: NOT EVEN JUST SOMETHING THAT'S --
Kris Krug: THAT'S RIGHT AND NOT JUST A, A DISCUSSION. BUT YOU CAN ACTUALLY ADD UM --
Leo: SHOW US MORE OF THIS. SOMETIMES PEOPLE SAY DRUPAL IS UGLY BUT I, I HAVE TO SAY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, THIS DOESN'T LOOK UGLY AT ALL. IT'S GORGEOUS.
Kris Krug: HERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF A, OF A RANDOM SHOW I PULLED UP AUGUST 18TH 1991 THE -- THEATER.
Leo: I WAS THERE YEAH. IT WAS A GREAT SHOW.
Kris Krug: YOU CAN, YOU CAN RATE THE SHOW. YOU CAN --
Leo: SET LISTS.
Kris Krug: HERE'S THE SET LIST RIGHT DOWN HERE.
Leo: COMMENTS.
Kris Krug: THESE ARE PHOTOS THAT FANS HAVE CONTRIBUTED FROM THE SHOW THERE.
Leo: OOPS.
Kris Krug: OH WE'RE NOT ONLINE I GUESS HERE.
Leo: OH RATS.
Kris Krug: ADD COMMENTS AND STUFF TO THE, THE SHOWS.
Leo: ONCE AGAIN WE'RE HAVING A LITTLE TROUBLE WITH OUR NET ACCESS. WELL SHOW US THE PAGES YOU'VE ALREADY LOADED. THIS IS SO THAT I GET IT NOW. SO, SO YOU CREATED A, A PIECE OF CONTENT, WHICH IN THIS CASE IS, IS MERELY A POINTER TO A SHOW.
Kris Krug: THAT'S RIGHT.
Leo: AND THEN PEOPLE CAN ADD PHOTOS. THEY CAN COMMENT ON IT. THEY CAN --
Kris Krug: THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN THESE ARE PROFILES OF OTHER MEMBERS IN THIS COMMUNITY --
Leo: WHO WERE THERE.
Kris Krug: WHO WERE AT THE SHOW.
Leo: OH I CAN SEE HOW THIS WOULD BE GREAT FOR THE GRATEFUL DEAD.
Kris Krug: YOU CAN SEARCH ALL THE SHOWS BY SONG NAME. IF YOU HAVE A FAVOURITE SONG "BROKEN DOWN PALACE" YOU WANT TO SEE WHERE IT WAS PERFORMED YOU CAN SEE ALL THE DIFFERENT SHOWS WHERE IT WAS PERFORMED.
Leo: WELL THAT'S THE OTHER THING IS IT'S NOT IT, IT MAYBE ORGANIZED AROUND SHOWS BUT YOU CAN LOOK AT IT IN OTHER WAYS TOO.
Kris Krug: OH YEAH.
Leo: YOU CAN SAY WHAT, WHAT SHOWS DID THEY PLAY THIS SONG AT?
Kris Krug: YEAH OR, OR WHAT SHOWS WAS A PARTICULAR USER AT?
Leo: OH YEAH.
Kris Krug: IF YOU HAVE A FRIEND WHO, WHO WENT TO SEE LOTS OF SHOWS YOU CAN SEE --
Leo: WHAT FUN. SO WHEN THE DEAD CAME TO YOU OR RHINO CAME TO YOU DID THEY ALREADY KNOW THEY WANTED DRUPAL? IS THAT WHY THEY CAME TO BRYGHT?
Kris Krug: THEY, THEY KNEW THAT THEY WANTED AN ONLINE COMMUNITY AND THEY KNEW THAT THE MOST SUCCESSFUL WAY TO GET THERE WAS THROUGH DRUPAL.
Leo: SOMEBODY HAD TOLD THEM DRUPAL. YOU'VE GOT TO USE DRUPAL.
Kris Krug: THAT'S RIGHT.
Leo: YEAH.
Kris Krug: I MEAN ITS, ITS PRETTY WELL RESPECTED WITHIN THE COMMUNITY. THERE'S A LOT OF RECORD LABELS USING IT RIGHT NOW.
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: IT'S A REALLY KIND OF LOW COST WAY TO BRING COMMUNITY, POWERFUL COMMUNITY FEATURES TO YOUR WEBSITE.
Leo: NOW YOU ALSO DO HOSTED DRUPAL RIGHT?
Kris Krug: YEAH THAT'S RIGHT SO.
Leo: SO PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THEIR OWN SERVER.
Kris Krug: EXACTLY. I'VE, I'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE BIGGER PROJECTS WE WORK ON. BUT ONE OF THE NEAT THINGS THAT WE'VE DONE IS WE HAVE A DRUPAL HOSTED SERVICE. ESSENTIALLY YOU CAN COME TO BRYGHT.COM AND PUT IN YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS AND YOUR USER NAME. IT WILL CREATE AN INSTANCE OF A DRUPAL SITE THAT WE HOST. SO WITHOUT ANY TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE --
Leo: IS THAT FREE?
Kris Krug: IT'S $20 A MONTH. IT'S A FREE TRIAL.
Leo: 20 A MONTH, OKAY.
Kris Krug: THAT'S $20 A MONTH. [Pop captions up]
Kris Krug: UM --
Leo: AND YOU GET ALL OF THOSE DRUPAL FEATURES WITHOUT HAVING TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PROGRAMMING OR --
Kris Krug: WITHOUT KNOWING ANYTHING. IF YOU CAN LIKE SEND AN EMAIL THROUGH GMAIL --
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: YOU ESSENTIALLY YOU KNOW YOU USE FORUMS AND A SUBMIT BUTTON --
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: YOU CAN GO TO THE WEBSITE. YOU CAN IMMEDIATELY GO IN AND START ADDING CONTENT, ADDING USERS. [Pop captions down]
Leo: DO YOU GIVE THEM A LOT OF TEMPLATES TO, TO START WITH?
Kris Krug: YEAH WE, WE AH DRUPAL HAS LOTS OF TEMPLATES THAT HAVE BEEN CONTRIBUTED TO THE OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY.
Leo: RIGHT.
Kris Krug: AND WE RUN PROBABLY 15 OF THOSE ON OUR SITE, SO.
Leo: RIGHT. SO B-R-Y-G-H-T.COM.
Kris Krug: THAT'S RIGHT.
Leo: IF PEOPLE WANT TO GO THERE AND, AND I, I'VE RECOMMENDED THIS A NUMBER OF TIMES. [Pop captions up]
Leo: ITS FUNNY BEFORE WE EVEN MET I KNEW ABOUT BRYGHT BECAUSE I'VE, I'VE RECOMMENDED IT TO PEOPLE ON MY, ON MY SHOWS AH FOR IF SOMEBODY'S LOOKING FOR A WAY TO START A REALLY RICH COMMUNITY SITE FOR AND I, I THINK A VERY IMPORTANT -- [Pop captions down]
Kris Krug: IT'S THE, IT'S TEH FASTEST ON RAMP INTO THE DRUPAL WORLD IS OUR HOSTED SERVICE.
Leo: I THINK IT IS YEAH. I RUN MY OWN DRUPAL SERVER AND I CAN TELL YOU IT'S JUST BETTER TO LET THEM DO IT. [Laughs]
Leo: IT'S NOT THAT HARD. DRUPAL'S GREAT. BUT IT, BUT IT DOES TAKE SOME YOU KNOW A LITTLE SKILL TO GET, TO GET WORKING PERFECTLY.
Kris Krug: YEAH.
Leo: MORE OF YOUR CALLS COMING UP. [Pop captions up]
Leo: KRIS KRUG IS WITH PRESIDENT OF B-R-Y-G-H-T.COM AND ALSO A FOUNDER OF STATIC PHOTOGRAPHY. AND YOU CAN SEE HIS WORK ON FLICKR, IN BUSINESS WEEK WIRED MAGAZINE, JPEG MAGAZINE AND A WHOLE LOT MORE. SO THANKS FOR JOINING US.
Kris Krug: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
Leo: COME BACK AGAIN.
Kris Krug: ALL RIGHT.
Leo: WE'LL TALK, WE'LL TALK SOME MORE. I THINK THIS IS A FASCINATING SUBJECT. [Pop captions down]
Leo: MORE OF YOUR CALLS COMING UP IN JUST A LITTLE BIT. DON'T YOU GO ANYWHERE ELSE. [MUSIC] [Commercial break] [MUSIC]
Leo: WELCOME BACK TO "THE LAB WITH LEO". LET'S TAKE ANOTHER CALL. KATE YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY GREAT.
Kate: I HAVE. OUR LAST CALLER IS THE FANTASTIC GORDON FROM ST. ALBERT IN ALBERTA.
Leo: WOW THAT'S PRETTY HIGH PRAISE THERE. FANTASTIC GORDON HOW ARE YOU? [Pop captions up]
Gordon: GOOD AND YOURSELF?
Leo: I'M GREAT. WELCOME TO THE SHOW. WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU?
Gordon: WELL I WAS HAVING A PROBLEM WITH MY DELL COMPUTER.
Leo: OKAY.
Gordon: I, I BOUGHT IT IN OCTOBER AND ABOUT JANUARY OR FEBRUARY IT REALLY STARTED SLOWING DOWN.
Leo: OH.
Gordon: WHENEVER I GO TO START THE COMPUTER OR TO EXIT THE COMPUTER LIKE TO LOG, SHUT IT DOWN IT TAKES FOREVER.
Leo: HMM. [Pop captions down]
Gordon: WHEN I EXIT PROGRAMS IT TAKES QUITE A WHILE AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.
Leo: AH THERE COULD BE A LOT OF THINGS. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO TRY TO SOLVE THIS?
Gordon: WELL I TRIED TO TAKE OFF MOST OF THE PROGRAMS LIKE I TOOK OFF THE SPYWARE. I TOOK OFF THE DELL --
Leo: IF YOU CALL DELL THE FIRST THING THEY'RE GONNA SAY IS RUN THE SYSTEM RESTORE DISKS AND GET IT BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS WHEN WE, WE SHIPPED IT TO YOU. HAVE YOU TRIED THAT?
Gordon: I DID.
Leo: YOU DID?
Gordon: I TRIED TO RESTORE IT BACK TO DECEMBER.
Leo: NO, NO, NO, NO, NOT, NOT, NOT SETTING A RESTORE POINT.
Gordon: OKAY.
Leo: NOT SYSTEM RESTORE BUT THE RECOVERY DISKS THAT COME WITH THE DELL.
Gordon: OTHER THEY NEVER SENT RECOVERY DISKS.
Leo: OKAY. SOMETIMES THEY DO THAT, WHICH REALLY ANNOYS ME. [Laughs]
Gordon: YEAH.
Leo: UM THERE MAYBE AN APPLICATION ON YOUR DELL TO MAKE THESE DISKS. YOU NEED, YOU HAVE TO HAVE AND I'M SURE DELL'S GIVING YOU SOME WAY TO REINSTALL WINDOWS ON THAT MACHINE.
Gordon: SEE I ASKED THEM THAT TOO AND THEY SAID THAT THEY CAN FIX ANY PROBLEMS WITH WINDOWS. THAT I --
Leo: NO THEY CAN'T.
Gordon: THAT I DON'T HAVE ANY, THAT I DON'T NEED THE DISKS TO RESTORE.
Leo: NO. THIS IS UNBELIEVABLE. I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE I'M HEARING THIS.
Gordon: YES CAUSE I ASKED THEM IF I COULD BUY A DISK.
Leo: WELL HAVE, THEN OKAY GOOD GUYS FIX THE PROBLEM! YOU CAN'T FIX ANY PROBLEM. YOU NEED THEIR SYSTEM RESTORE DISKS AND I'LL GIVE YOU A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A PROBLEM THEY CAN'T FIX AND IT MAY WELL BE THE PROBLEM THAT'S GOING ON WITH YOUR COMPUTER. WHAT IF YOU'VE GOT SPYWARE OR VIRUSES ON THERE AND --
Gordon: HERE'S ANOTHER THING LEO I WANTED TO ASK YOU. EVERY TIME I SHUT DOWN IT SAYS, IT GOES IT COULD NOT END THE PROGRAM.
Leo: YEAH.
Gordon: AND IT SAYS SHELLCON.
Leo: WELL --
Gordon: SHELLCOM.
Leo: SHELL C-O-N RIGHT?
Gordon: AH C-O-M YES.
Leo: M AS IN MOTHER?
Gordon: YES.
Leo: SHELLCOM, YEAH THAT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE YOU'VE PROBABLY GOT SOME SPYWARE OR VIRUS ON THERE.
Gordon: AND WHEN I USE AVG IT DOESN'T SHOW IT.
Leo: YEAH THAT AVG IS FREE AND NOT NECESSARILY THE BEST PROGRAM OUT THERE. THERE ARE SOME ONLINE ANTI- VIRUS PROGRAMS YOU COULD TRY.
Gordon: OKAY.
Leo: IF YOU GO TO AH HOUSECALL.ANTIVIRUS.COM THAT'S ONE FROM TREND MICRO.
Gordon: OKAY.
Leo: YOU MIGHT ALSO DO YOU HAVE ANY ANTI-SPYWARE ON THERE LIKE MICROSOFT DEFENDER?
Gordon: I DO HAVE DEFENDER YES I DO.
Leo: AND IT DOESN'T SEE ANYTHING ON THERE?
Gordon: NO -- [Both talking at once]
Leo: THIS IS, THIS IS BY THE WAY WHY I BELIEVE THAT DELL SHOULD BE GIVING YOU THE DISKS. IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE IN FACT IT'S NOT UNCOMMON TO GET AN INFECTION ON THERE THAT, THAT NO PROGRAM CAN DETECT AH UM AND THE, THE REALLY THE ONLY SURE WAY TO GET RID OF IT IS TO RESTORE THE SYSTEM, TO REINSTALL WINDOWS. NOT TO GO TO RESTORE POINT. THAT RESTORE POINT MAYBE INFECTED AS WELL. BUT TO FORMAT THE DRIVE AND REINSTALL AND I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY DIDN'T GIVE YOU DISKS OF ANY KIND. IN FACT I DON'T THINK THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK THEY MUST HAVE SOME WAY OF GETTING WINDOWS DISKS THERE. THIS IS SOMETHING MICROSOFT REALLY ENCOURAGES FRANKLY BECAUSE THEY'RE SO AFRAID YOU'RE GONNA STEAL WINDOWS IF THEY GIVE YOU A DISK. THEY ACTUALLY GIVE THE MANUFACTURERS A BETTER BREAK, A BETTER DISCOUNT ON WINDOWS IF THEY SAY WELL WE WON'T GIVE THEM ANY DISKS. BUT THIS RIPS YOU OFF. IF YOU GET THE VERY CHEAPEST DELL THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. ONE OF THE REASONS IT'S SO CHEAP IS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GIVING YOU ANY WINDOWS INSTALL DISKS. YOU NEED WINDOWS INSTALL DISKS. I WOULD GO BACK TO THEM AND SAY WHAT IS IT GONNA TAKE FOR ME TO GET A SYSTEM INSTALL DISK? I NEED TO REINSTALL WINDOWS. IT'S ALMOST CERTAIN THAT YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE OTHER THING THAT, THAT IT COULD BE IS A FAILING HARD DRIVE. WHEN A HARD DRIVE STARTS TO FLAKE OUT SOMETIMES THINGS GET SLOWER. BUT THE FACT THAT IT'S SAYING I CAN'T CLOSE THIS PROGRAM YOU'VE GOT SOME PROGRAM RUNNING IN THERE THAT IS NOT CLOSING OUT PROPERLY. [Pop captions up]
Leo: AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE SOURCE OF MOST OF THESE PROBLEMS. THE BEST THING TO DO WOULD BE TO REINSTALL IF YOU HAVE THOSE SYSTEM RECOVERY DISKS. IF YOU DON'T YOU'RE KIND OF OUT OF LUCK. [Pop captions down]
Leo: YOU'VE GOT TO GO BACK TO DELL AND SAY PLEASE SIR, PLEASE CAN I HAVE THE DISKS? IT JUST IT INFURIATES ME. AND, AND FOLKS IF YOU'RE BUYING A COMPUTER ASK EM DO I GET THE DISKS? CAUSE IF YOU DON'T YOU'RE OUT OF, YOU'RE IN TROUBLE JUST, JUST LIKE OUR LAST CALLER. NOW IT'S TIME FOR FREE FILE OF THE DAY. I'M GONNA CHEER MYSELF UP BECAUSE RYAN ALWAYS HAS A WONDERFUL PROGRAM.
Ryan Yewell: OH.
Leo: WE CALL THEM YEWELL'S JEWELS.
Ryan Yewell: WELL IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A GOOD ONE. ITS WINDOWS IT'S SIMPLE, BUT HOPEFULLY PEOPLE LIKE IT. IT'S CALLED QUAD-LOCK UNIT CONVERTER.
Leo: YOU'RE SIMPLE PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
Ryan Yewell: AH THEY DO.
Leo: YES.
Ryan Yewell: HOPEFULLY. IT'S ALL GOOD SO.
Leo: QUAD-LOCK WHAT DOES THIS DO? [Pop captions up]
Ryan Yewell: WELL BASICALLY IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY CUBIC FEET THERE ARE IN A LITRE THIS WILL TELL YOU LOCK ON. [Pop captions down]
Leo: WELL HOW MANY, MANY CUBIC FEET ARE THERE IN A LITRE?
Ryan Yewell: THERE ARE 28 LITRES, 28.
Leo: SO THIS IS BASICALLY AN AD FOR THIS COMPANY'S INSULATING CONCRETE FORMS. BUT IT DOES EVERY KIND OF CALCULATION AND CONVERSION YOU COULD EVER WANT.
Ryan Yewell: IT DOES. WE HAVE FOR VOLUME HERE WE'VE GOT DIFFERENT WE'VE GOT RADIATION EXPOSURE. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW MANY --
Leo: IT'S TOTALLY OBSCURE. [Laughs]
Ryan Yewell: IT GOES PRETTY OBSCURE -- [Both talking at once]
Leo: OH SO YOU'RE SAYING, NO THIS IS GOOD.
Ryan Yewell: IT DOES.
Leo: CAUSE I'VE SEEN A LOT OF CONVERSION UTILITIES BUT I'VE NEVER SEEN ONE THAT SAYS RADIUM EXPOSURE.
Ryan Yewell: THIS HAS IT SAYS PRESSURE, MASS, LIKE FORCE, FLOW --
Leo: HOLY COW.
Ryan Yewell: ENERGY, DISTANCE, DATA, CURRENT.
Leo: OH THIS IS GREAT.
Ryan Yewell: SO YOU KNOW YOU CAN LIKE HOW MANY AFTER --
Leo: MOLAR CONCENTRATION.
Ryan Yewell: AFTER LIKE MICROAMP --
Leo: WOW. [Pop captions up]
Ryan Yewell: TO AMP HERE SO.
Leo: WHAT'S IT CALLED AGAIN?
Ryan Yewell: ITS CALLED QUAD-LOCK UNIT CONVERTER.
Leo: AND IT'S FREE?
Ryan Yewell: IT'S FREE, IT'S FOR WINDOWS AND --
Leo: AND IT'S AVAILABLE.
Ryan Yewell: LABWITHLEO.COM YEWELL'S JEWELS.
Leo: JUST GO TO THE YEWELL'S JEWELS SECTION YOU'LL FIND MANY 49 IN FACT FABULOUS FREE PROGRAMS JUST FOR YOUR CONSUMPTION THANKS TO MR. RYAN YEWELL.
Ryan Yewell: YES.
Leo: THANKS TO YOU FOR WATCHING THE SHOW. WE'RE GONNA GIVE YOU ONE MORE CHANCE TO TAKE OUR QUICK QUIZ QUESTION OF THE DAY BEFORE WE GET ONTO OUR NEXT CALLER OUR NEXT GUEST. ARE YOU READY? HERE IT IS.
Leo: WHAT RADIO BAND DOES 802 OR BAND OR BANDS DOES 802.11 WIRELESS NETWORKING USE? THAT'S THAT NEW HIGH SPEED WI- FI. IS IT -- [Blank for boards]
Leo: GET TO THE WEBSITE GIVE US YOUR BEST GUESS. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT WHEN "THE LAB" CONTINUES. [MUSIC] [Pop captions down] [Commercial break] [MUSIC] [Pop captions up]
Leo: WELCOME BACK TO "THE LAB". BEFORE THE BREAK WE ASKED YOU WHICH FREQUENCIES 802.11N USES? WELL IT USES BOTH 2.4 AND 5. IT USES 2.4 BY DEFAULT BUT YOU CAN TELL IT TO USE 5 GIGAHURTZ IF YOU WANT. [Pop captions down]
Leo: AND SOMETIMES PEOPLE DO THAT TO AVOID INTERFERENCE FROM OTHER WI-FI BAY STATIONS IN THEIR AREA SO THIS MAY NOT BE A BAD IDEA. ALL RIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN PLEASE YOUR ATTENTION TO MR. MACMERC RICK YAEGER HE'S HERE WITHOUT MINUS A MACMERC T-SHIRT. I'M DISAPPOINTED.
Rick Yaeger: WELL IT'S --
Leo: I THOUGHT WE COULD SHOW OFF SOME COOL --
Rick Yaeger: YOU COULD BUT I'D HAVE TO GET REMASKED.
Leo: YOU'D HAVE TO DISROBE. [Laughs]
Leo: AND LET'S NOT.
Rick Yaeger: LET'S NOT.
Leo: LET'S NOT.
Rick Yaeger: LET'S NOT GO THERE.
Leo: RICK IS A PROFESSIONAL MICRO AH MACINTOSH PRODUCTION ARTIST, PRINT PRODUCTION ARTIST.
Rick Yaeger: YEAH.
Leo: HE'S BEEN RUNNING A GREAT WEBSITE MACMERC.COM SINCE 1999 AND HE'S BEEN ON MANY PODCASTS AND THIS SHOW MANY TIMES.
Rick Yaeger: MMM-HMM.
Leo: AND NOW YOU'RE GONNA HELP ME GET CONTROL OF MY EMAIL, PLEASE I BEG OF YOU PLEASE. HELP ME RICK. HELP ME.
Rick Yaeger: YOU GOT PROBLEMS WITH YOUR EMAIL?
Leo: OY GEVALT.
Rick Yaeger: OY GEVALT?
Leo: NON-STOP, NON-STOP. I GET THOUSANDS OF MESSAGES A DAY. I CAN'T CONTROL IT. I CAN'T READ IT. WHAT DO I DO? [Pop captions up]
Rick Yaeger: WELL AS, AS YOU PROBABLY KIND OF I, I FEEL YOUR PAIN. I FEEL THE PRESSURE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
Leo: I'M UNDER PRESSURE.
Rick Yaeger: BECAUSE EMAIL IS LIKE A DEBT RIGHT?
Leo: IT'S LIKE A DEBT. SOMEBODY BUT A DEBT THAT SOMEBODY CAN INCUR ON ME WITHOUT MY ASKING. [Pop captions down]
Rick Yaeger: EXACTLY. SO THIS IS, THIS IS WHY THEY GET THE TERM EMAIL BANKRUPTCY.
Leo: YES.
Rick Yaeger: WHERE YOU JUST SAY --
Leo: I GIVE UP.
Rick Yaeger: I CAN'T READ IT, GOODBYE.
Leo: YEAH.
Rick Yaeger: DELETE IT.
Leo: YEAH. [Pop captions up]
Rick Yaeger: AND THEN, AND THEN YOU MAKE UP SOME STORY ABOUT MY COMPUTER CRASHING. IF YOU SEND ME ANYTHING DON'T SEND IT AGAIN.
Leo: SOMEONE'S PROPOSED AND I THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO IT WAS THAT ONCE A YEAR ON YOUR BIRTHDAY YOU'D BE ALLOWED TO DECLARE EMAIL BANKRUPTCY. WHERE YOU SAY YOU KNOW YOU MIGHT HAVE SENT ME AN EMAIL MESSAGE BUT IF I HAVEN'T RESPONDED YOU SHOULD JUST KNOW I'M DELETING ALL MY MESSAGES ON MY BIRTHDAY.
Rick Yaeger: IT'S MY BIRTHDAY RIGHT.
Leo: IT'S MY BIRTHDAY. ALL MESSAGES WILL DIE NOW. SO IF YOU WANT A, IF YOU WANT A MESSAGE IF YOU WANT TO RESPONSE SEND ME ANOTHER MESSAGE. [Pop captions down]
Leo: THE PROBLEM WITH DOING THAT IS IT FILLS RIGHT BACK UP. I'VE DONE IT.
Rick Yaeger: I KNOW.
Leo: IT FILLS RIGHT BACK UP.
Rick Yaeger: YEAH. WELL FIRST --
Leo: START WITH SPAM. I MEAN THERE'S THE FIRST THING TO GO.
Rick Yaeger: THE FIRST EXACTLY, THE FIRST THING YOU WANT TO DO IS, IS NARROW IT DOWN TO AT LEAST LEGITIMATE EMAIL.
Leo: YEAH.
Rick Yaeger: AND WHAT I USE FOR THAT IS WELL YOU COULD USE MAIL'S BUILT IN JUNK FILTER. [Both talking at once]
Leo: THIS IS ON MACINTOSH RIGHT?
Rick Yaeger: ON THE MAC, YEAH. MAIL HAS A BUILT IN JUNK FILTER.
Leo: IT DOESN'T WORK GREAT.
Rick Yaeger: IT'S OKAY.
Leo: YEAH THE SAME THING WITH OUTLOOK AND OUTLOOK EXPRESS AND VISTA MAIL.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT.
Leo: THEY HAVE BUILT IN FILTERS BUT THEY'RE YOU KNOW WHY? CAUSE THEY IF THE, IF THE IF MICROSOFT OR APPLE IS TOO AGRESSIVE ABOUT THIS AND YOU LOSE AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE THEY'RE GONNA TAKE A LOT OF HEAT. SO THEY DON'T WANT TO BE TOO AGRESSIVE.
Rick Yaeger: WELL C.COMMAND SPAMSIEVE THEY DON'T SEEM TO CARE WHETHER THEY --
Leo: I LOVE MICHAEL TSAI. HE'S DONE A GREAT JOB.
Rick Yaeger: WHETHER THEY TAKE THE HEAT OR NOT.
Leo: YEAH.
Rick Yaeger: YEAH. THIS, THIS IS AN AWESOME PROGRAM. IT'S ONLY 30 BUCKS. IT RUNS IN THE BACKGROUND. IT DOESN'T TAKE UP A LOT OF CPU CYCLES OR ANY OF THAT.
Leo: RIGHT, RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: AND YOU TEACH IT OVER TIME. [Pop captions up]
Rick Yaeger: IT LOOKS AT YOUR EMAIL AND IT KNOWS RIGHT OFF THE BAT A FEW THINGS.
Leo: RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: BUT YOU TEACH IT WHAT YOU CONSIDER SPAM OVER TIME.
Leo: RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: AND IT GETS BETTER AND BETTER. MY, MY WHAT DO THEY CALL IT CORPUS?
Leo: YES.
Rick Yaeger: DO YOU WANT TO SEE MY CORPUS?
Leo: SURE.
Rick Yaeger: I CAN'T SHOW YOU MY CORPUS ACTUALLY. IT'S HUGE.
Leo: A GIANT CORPUS, YEAH. [Laughs]
Rick Yaeger: IT'S HUGE BUT IT'S ALSO FULL OF DIRTY WORDS.
Leo: OH YEAH. YOU PROBABLY WOULDN'T WANT TO SHOW THAT.
Rick Yaeger: NO.
Leo: THIS IS THE STUFF THAT IT'S LOOKING FOR.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT.
Leo: AND WILL DETERMINE IF IT'S SPAM BY SCORING THE MESSAGES IS BASICALLY WHAT IT'S DOING YEAH. [Pop captions down]
Rick Yaeger: EXACTLY AND THOSE DIRTY WORDS GET SCORED VERY HIGHLY.
Leo: RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: AND ANY EMAIL THAT HAS ENOUGH OF THEM --
Leo: BOOM.
Rick Yaeger: GONE.
Leo: IT'S SPAM.
Rick Yaeger: AND AH --
Leo: THIS IS SPAMSIEVE BY C.COMMAND.
Rick Yaeger: SPAMSIEVE C.COMMAND.
Leo: 30 BUCKS IT IS A GREAT PROGRAM. MAC ONLY UNFORTUNATELY ALTHOUGH THERE'S SOME GOOD ALTERNATIVES ON THE --
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT.
Leo: ON THE WINDOWS SIDE. BUT I LIKE INBOX FOR INSTANCE. IT'S THE SAME IDEA. IT'S A BAYESIAN FILTER THAT LEARNS AS YOU USE IT.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT THAT'S THE BIG WORD.
Both: BAYESIAN.
Rick Yaeger: THE PASSWORD IS --
Both: BAYESIAN.
Rick Yaeger: UM THE OTHER STRATEGY I USE IS USING DIFFERENT ACCOUNTS. A LOT OF ISPS WILL GIVE YOU A FEW ACCOUNTS.
Leo: MMM-HMM.
Rick Yaeger: AND IF YOU HAVEN'T GIVEN THEM ALL TO YOUR KIDS AND YOUR WIFE AND EVERYBODY YOU CAN SET UP ONE SECRET ACCOUNT.
Leo: RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: THAT ANY EMAIL COMING FROM TO THAT ACCOUNT IS YOU KNOW FROM SOMEBODY YOU HAVE ENTRUSTED THIS INFORMATION TO.
Leo: THIS IS SO FUNNY CAUSE PEOPLE THINK I HAVE A SECRET ACCOUNT. THEY KEEP ASKING ME FOR MY SECRET ACCOUNT.
Rick Yaeger: WHAT'S YOUR SECRET ACCOUNT?
Leo: I DON'T HAVE A SECRET ACCOUNT SO DON'T ASK ME FOR IT.
Rick Yaeger: YEAH WELL YOU CAN MOVE IT, YOU CAN GO THE OTHER WAY AND HAVE A SECRET ACCOUNT WHERE YOU THE, THE ACCOUNT YOU USE WHEN YOU SIGN UP FOR WEB SERVICES AND THINGS --
Leo: USE THAT.
Rick Yaeger: USE THAT INSTEAD.
Leo: SO THAT GETS ALL THE SPAM.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT.
Leo: RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: SO THAT'S MY OTHER STRATEGY.
Leo: AND SOME THERE AH YAHOO, HOTMAIL, GMAIL HAVE WAYS THAT YOU CAN CREATE THESE KIND OF PSEUDO EMAIL ADDRESSES THAT YOU CAN USE FOR SPECIAL PURPOSES.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT. MY, MY THIRD TIP IS WELL I'LL, I'LL SAY IT DOESN'T WORK FOR ME AND I'LL, AND I DON'T --
Leo: WELL GOOD, WELL THANKS. [Both laugh]
Rick Yaeger: YEAH.
Leo: IT MIGHT WORK FOR SOMEBODY SO YOU'RE GONNA TRY IT.
Rick Yaeger: USE THE BUILT IN RULES.
Leo: YEAH NO I USE THOSE A LOT.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT BUT MY PROBLEM IS I'M SO TRAINED TO LOOK AT THE INBOX.
Leo: RIGHT I MISS STUFF.
Rick Yaeger: THAT I MISS STUFF.
Leo: YES.
Rick Yaeger: AND AS A SOLUTION TO MY OWN PROBLEM I FOUND A PIECE OF SOFTWARE --
Leo: YOU COULD USE THE, USE THE RULES TO COLOUR MAIL. I SEE YOU'RE USING COLOURS A LOT.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT. I'M USING DOCSTAR.
Leo: DOCSTAR?
Rick Yaeger: AND WHAT DOCSTAR DOES IS --
Leo: NEVER HEARD OF IT.
Rick Yaeger: PUTS THOSE, THOSE LITTLE HAPPY DOTS WITH NUMBERS IN THEM --
Leo: YEAH.
Rick Yaeger: IN YOUR DOC.
Leo: OKAY.
Rick Yaeger: FOR AND YOU CAN ASSIGN THEM TO DIFFERENT FOLDERS IN YOUR MAIL.
Leo: SO YOU MAKE SURE THAT YOU CHECK THAT FOLDER CAUSE I HAVE A SPECIAL FOLDER WHERE IMPORTANT MESSAGES FROM SEAN CARRUTHERS GO AND I KEEP FORGETTING TO LOOK. [Pop captions down]
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT. SO YOU CAN ASSIGN SEAN CARRUTHERS --
Leo: HE SHOULD HAVE A SPECIAL STAR.
Rick Yaeger: A NICE LITTLE HEART.
Leo: A LITTLE HEART.
Rick Yaeger: AH.
Leo: SO WHEN IT COMES FROM SEAN --
Rick Yaeger: ANY MAIL YOU GET FROM SEAN HAS A HEART.
Leo: IN, IN MY DARK, IN MY DOC.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT.
Leo: IN MY DARK. [Laughs]
Rick Yaeger: WELL AND ALSO IN YOUR --
Leo: THAT WAS A FREUDIAN SLIP. [Both laugh]
Sean Carruthers: I LOVE YOU TOO LEO.
Leo: YEAH IN THE DARK I THINK OF SEAN.
Rick Yaeger: GREAT. [Leo laughing]
Rick Yaeger: ANYWAYS SO DOCSTAR ALSO HAS A SCREENSAVER IF YOU LIKE THOSE KIND OF THINGS WHERE IT CAN IT SHOWS THOSE ICONS BOUNCING AROUND WITH THE, WITH THE NUMBER.
Leo: OH THAT'S COOL. HOW MUCH IS DOCSTAR?
Rick Yaeger: DOCSTAR IS EIGHT BUCKS.
Leo: EIGHT BUCKS.
Rick Yaeger: A WHOPPING EIGHT BUCKS.
Leo: CHEAP BUT TWICE THE PRICE.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT. THERE IS ALSO A, A LITTLE SOFTWARE CALLED MAILACTON.
Leo: I USE THAT.
Rick Yaeger: THAT ONE'S FUN. SET UP LITTLE CONTROL KEYS TO SEND MAIL CAUSE SOMETIMES THE RULES I MEAN YOU CAN ONLY MAKE RULES FOR, FOR MAIL YOU CAN ANTICIPATE.
Leo: YEAH SOMETIMES A HUMAN IS NEEDED.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT.
Leo: A HUMAN INTELLIGENCE.
Rick Yaeger: SO YOU KNOW THAT YOU'RE GETTING MAIL FROM SEAN CARRUTHERS.
Leo: RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: FROM CERTAIN EMAIL ADDRESSES.
Leo: RIGHT.
Rick Yaeger: BUT MAYBE HE'LL GO ONTO SOMEONE ELSE'S COMPUTER.
Leo: I'LL TELL YOU HOW I, I USE IT. [Pop captions up]
Leo: WHEN WE GET QUESTIONS FOR "CALL FOR HELP" I HAVE A CONTROL C MAPPED OUT THERE. AH DID I SAY "CALL FOR HELP"?
Rick Yaeger: I DIDN'T HEAR YOU.
Leo: "THE LAB". IT USED TO BE "CALL FOR HELP".
Rick Yaeger: YEAH.
Leo: THAT'S WHY I USE THE CONTROL C. I SHOULD USE CONTROL L NOW.
Rick Yaeger: RIGHT.
Leo: BUT I DO A CONTROL C AND IT WILL AUTOMATICALLY MOVE IT INTO THAT FOLDER SO THAT I CAN SEND THOSE ALONG TO KATE. SO THAT'S WHAT I USE IT FOR. [Pop captions down]
Leo: IT'S A VERY QUICK WAY AS YOU'RE GOING THROUGH MAIL TO PROCESS IT VERY QUICKLY.
Rick Yaeger: WHEN, WHEN RULES DON'T WORK YOU CAN, YOU CAN SET UP A --
Leo: THAT'S CALLED MAILACTON.
Rick Yaeger: MAILACTON.
Leo: IT'S A PLUGIN FOR APPLE MAIL.
Rick Yaeger: IT IS. AND I BELIEVE IT'S --
Leo: AND ALL OF THESE ARE, ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH OUR WEBSITE. [Pop captions up]
Leo: IF YOU GO TO LABWITHLEO.COM WE'LL HAVE LINKS TO ALL OF RICK'S SOLUTIONS. THESE ARE MAC ONLY. BUT WE'LL THROW IN SOME WINDOWS ONES FOR YOU WINDOWS FOLKS THAT ARE FEELING A LITTLE LEFT OUT RIGHT NOW. COMING UP ANOTHER IS THERE ANOTHER? THIS IS IT? WE'RE DONE? [Pop captions down]
Leo: I CAN'T BELIEVE IT UGH, UGH WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME. ALL RIGHT A FINAL WORD COMING UP. I'LL, I'LL SNEAK IN SOME MORE CONTENT RIGHT AT THE END OF THE SHOW.
Rick Yaeger: SURE.
Leo: I'LL TRY TO DO THAT AS "THE LAB" CONTINUES SO STAY RIGHT HERE. IT GOES TOO FAST. [MUSIC] [Commercial break] [MUSIC]
Leo: WELCOME BACK TO "THE LAB". [Pop captions up]
Leo: KATE WE HAVE MANAGED TO SURVIVE YET ANOTHER HOUR.
Kate: WE DID.
Leo: ALL DONE AND DUSTED UP AND ALL THROUGH. [Pop captions down]
Leo: WE WANT TO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND THANKS TO ALL OUR GUESTS, THANKS TO ALL OUR GUESTS TOO. WE COULDN'T DO IT WITHOUT THEM AND WITHOUT YOU. IF YOU'D LIKE TO BE ON THE SHOW WE'D LOVE YOU TO, TO GET ON THE SHOW. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS GO TO OUR WEBSITE LABWITHLEO.COM. I KNOW YOU GO THERE ALL THE TIME ANYWAY. MORE AND MORE STUFF THERE ALL THE TIME.
Kate: IT'S GREAT. [Pop captions up]
Leo: WE'VE GOT VIDEOS NOW AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS. AND WHEN YOU'RE THERE YOU'LL SEE A FORM THAT YOU CAN FILL OUT IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS. FILL THAT OUT. IT GOES TO KATE, ACTUALLY I DO A LITTLE CONTROL C AND THEN IT GOES TO KATE. AND THEN AFTER IT GETS TO KATE WE GET YOU ON THE SHOW AND IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE. AND THEN YOU CALL THE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.
Kate: IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
Leo: BUT ONLY IN AUSTRALIA. NO YOU CALL THEM IN THE DAYTIME FIRST.
Kate: YEAH.
Leo: BUT TO BE ON THE SHOW SOMETIMES YOU CALL THEM IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.
Kate: YES.
Leo: ANYWAYS THANKS FOR BEING HERE. WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME. TELL YOUR FRIENDS. WE'LL SEE YOU HERE ON "THE LAB". BYE-BYE. [Pop captions down] [MUSIC] [Coins bouncing]
\M AHH \M [MUSIC] [Pop captions up quickly] CLOSED CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY: BROADCAST CAPTIONING & CONSULTING SERVICES INC. WW.CLOSEDCAPTIONING.COM [Pop captions down]